Legislature(1999 - 2000)
01/25/2000 02:50 PM House FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
GENERAL SUBJECT(S): DIVISION OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE
Overview of FY99 and FY00
Programs and Results
The following overview was taken in log note format. Tapes and
handouts will be on file with the House Finance Committee through the
21st Legislative Session, contact 465-2156. After the 21st Legislative
Session they will be available through the Legislative Library at 465-
3808.
Time Meeting Convened: 2:50 P.M.
Tape(s): HFC 00 - 16, Side 1
HFC 00 - 16, Side 2
PRESENT:
X
Representative G. Davis
X
Co-Chair Therriault
Absent
Representative Foster
X
Co-Chair Mulder
X
Representative Grussendorf
X
Vice Chair Bunde
Absent
Representative Moses
X
Representative Austerman
X
Representative Phillips
X
Representative J. Davies
X
Representative Williams
ALSO PRESENT: JIM NORDLUND, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE,
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES; JANET CLARKE, DIRECTOR,
DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL
SERVICES; JAY LIVEY, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND
SOCIAL SERVICES; CHRIS ASHENBRENNER, PUBLIC ASSISTANCE MANAGER,
DIVISION OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL
SERVICES.
LOG
SPEAKER
DISCUSSION
TAPE HFC 00 - 16
SIDE 1
000
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Co-Chair Mulder convened the House
Finance Committee meeting at 2:50 P.M.
DIVISION OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE
OVERVIEW OF WELFARE REFORM
104
JIM NORDLUND,
DIRECTOR, DIVISION
OF PUBLIC
ASSISTANCE,
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
AND SOCIAL SERVICES
Mr. Nordlund provided handout material to
Committee members. [Copies on File]. He
noted that he would be speaking to
Welfare Reform. He advised that he would
be addressing the "Welfare Reform Status
Report" contained in the handout. He
noted that the program has basically been
successful.
247
MR. NORDLUND
Commented that Welfare Reform has
achieved and changed the face of Public
Assistance in the State of Alaska.
Alaska has completed the second year of
its new welfare program. AS a result of
welfare reform, the dramatic decrease in
welfare caseloads seen across the nation
is happening in Alaska also. While
caseload and spending are down and more
recipients are working, challenges still
persist in helping the remaining Alaskan
families off welfare and into self-
sufficiency. The strength of the economy
in the State has made the program
successful. He acknowledged that
additionally, the program had been made
good from investments made by the
Legislature. This funding has helped
clients become successful on the job.
353
MR. NORDLUND
Spoke to the basics of the new law.
Alaska's welfare reform law was signed by
Governor Knowles in June of 1996, which
changed welfare limits to time limited.
Also, the client was expected to find
work. He added that minor parents were
required to live at home in order to
qualify for the program.
470
MR. NORDLUND
Reiterated that the new welfare reform
laws have changed welfare by:
? Imposing a 5 year life time limit on
benefits; and
? Requiring minor parents to live with
their parents or in another safe home,
and to finish high school.
559
CHRIS ASHENBRENNER,
PUBLIC ASSISTANCE
MANAGER, DIVISION OF
PUBLIC ASSISTANCE,
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
AND SOCIAL SERVICES
Commented on the exemptions to the
program.
* Such as extraordinary hardships.
592
VICE CHAIR BUNDE
Noted that Senator Stevens was trying to
expand that component.
614
MS. ASHENBRENNER
Advised that there were two portions of
the exemption which Senator Stevens had
referenced.
* Indians living on a reservation
668
VICE CHAIR BUNDE
Questioned how they would maintain their
benefits.
700
REPRESENTATIVE
FOSTER
Inquired how these people would they find
work.
721
MR. NORDLUND
Continued listing the welfare reform
bullets in Alaska:
? Reducing benefits to two-parent
families in the summer and to families
with low housing costs;
? Requiring all recipients to develop a
family self sufficiency plan;
? Allowing families more earned income
so that it pays to work;
? Penalizing recipients for quitting or
refusing to take a job;
? Enabling communities to play a greater
role in the delivery of welfare-to-
work services.
878
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Asked the percentage of reduction in
benefit resulting from the recipient
going back to work.
901
MR. NORDLUND
Explained that usually they would be
receiving $200 dollars per month more
from having the job.
944
MR. NORDLUND
Pointed out that there are sanctions
policies for those clients that refuse to
take a job. Most of the work services in
Alaska are provided by community based
service providers under a grant or
contract with Division of Public
Assistance (DPA).
997
MR. NORDLUND
Addressed the caseload growth by program
year. [Copy on File]. He noted that the
caseload was down 37% this month from the
figure used in December 1996. He pointed
out that it is important to remember the
seasonal economy of the Alaskan people
which would affect the caseload number
each month differently.
1079
VICE CHAIR BUNDE
Asked since most caseloads are down,
shouldn't the caseworker numbers also be
decreased.
1100
MR. NORDLUND
Replied that the caseload numbers are
down for only one program within the
Department. He noted that there are six
programs administered through the
eligibility system and that the overall
caseloads do not show such a significant
decrease.
1150
MR. NORDLUND
Advised that there is some staff that
only addresses case management. The
majority of the staff does other work.
There are approximately 240 total
caseworkers.
1185
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Inquired how many people were being
served.
1197
MS. ASHENBRENNER
explained that eligibility was determined
by a family system. Perhaps that family
is no longer getting public assistance
but they continue to receive some service
through the Department.
1235
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Asked how much federal versus state funds
was used in the program.
1247
MR. NORDLUND
Replied that each program was different.
Food stamps are 100% federally funded.
He noted that the Department receives a
set block grant and the Department is
required to match 80%. The AFDC program
was funded on a 50% federal and 50% state
basis with the total amount dependent on
the size of the caseload. Under the new
program, federal funding comes in a fixed
amount known as the Temporary Assistance
for needy Families (TANF) block grant and
the State is required to match at least
80% of the federal level. The federal
amount is always changing. The Medicaid
programs are 50/50 split.
1312
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Acknowledged the difficulty in separating
the various accounts.
1328
REPRESENTATIVE
PHILLIPS
Noted that each family system is followed
up. She asked how long that would go on
for.
1352
MR. NORDLUND
Replied that the limit was only
established for the Welfare Reform
portion of the program.
1373
MR. NORDLUND
Acknowledged that the food stamp programs
did have changes. Certain income levels
are the only ones eligible for food
stamps.
1400
MS. ASHENBRENNER
Commented on the Medicaid/Medicare
transition benefit.
1425
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT
Asked the number of clientele that each
caseworker addresses.
1439
MS. ASHENBRENNER
Replied that it could be 80 to 90
families and additionally that could
cause tracking to twice as many programs.
1452
MR. NORDLUND
Pointed out that there are new rules for
each program, creating more time to make
determinations. He emphasized that the
work is more complex than it used to be.
1500
MR. NORDLUND
Addressed the temporary assistance for
needy families percent of the caseload
growth by the program year. He commented
on Alaska's position in the national
average. This State's rate of decline
was a little faster than the national
average.
1587
REPRESENTATIVE G.
DAVIS
Believed that Alaska passed Welfare
Reform one year before the federal
government did.
1612
MR. NORDLUND
Corrected that Alaska passed it only
three months before President Clinton
signed the federal mandate.
1640
MR. NORDLUND
Referenced the handout that listed the
actual amount of benefits paid over the
last four years. [Copy on File].
1670
MR. NORDLUND
Due to declining caseloads and the
reduced demand for cash benefit payments,
millions of dollars have been made
available to provide child care and work
services for recipients and to supplant
state funds for other services which has
helped to reduce the State's budget
deficit.
1703
MR. NORDLUND
Pointed out that there has been a general
fund reductions of $20 million dollars.
1723
MR. NORDLUND
Currently, there is about a $30 million
dollar general fund savings.
1742
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT
Asked if Congress was considering
loosening the restrictions on what those
funds could be used for.
1761
MR. NORDLUND
Stated that to date, there has been
discussion on that concern. However,
there has been no movement yet. He
stated that he looked forward to a
healthy debate regarding the situation.
1795
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Referenced the graph of matching funds.
He asked what the current match was.
1832
MR. NORDLUND
Replied that the State match was $50
million dollars. He noted that this
year, the general fund match would need
to be $50 million dollars. The federal
rules allow the State to roll forward
money.
1873
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT
Replied that some of that money had been
shifted into Day Care Assistance. The
State has been aggressive with those
shifted funds. He added that there have
been constraints in using those funds.
1904
MR. NORDLUND
Agreed that there was a 30% ceiling and
that the federal funds could be shifted.
1924
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Asked if there were still excess funds.
1933
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT
Replied that there was some balance.
1941
MR. NORDLUND
Continued, addressing the performance
measures. [See handout]. These measures
are continually changing. He pointed out
that the performance measures were
divided into 2 categories:
? Client reaches highest level of
economic self-sufficiency; and
? Responsible stewardship.
2015
MR. NORDLUND
Spoke to the expectation of the Division
in regard to the long-term care for the
individual and their family. The noted
that the performance measures help to
measure the thresholds and progress along
the way.
2081
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Encouraged the Department and the
Division to work closely with the Chairs
of both the Senate and House
Subcommittees.
2102
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT
Asked about how healthcare option would
affect the KidCare program.
2120
MR. NORDLUND
Replied that for anyone with coverage
under an employer would be ineligible for
the KidCare program during the employed
time period.
2141
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT
Asked what happens when and if the
employer decides to drop the insurance.
2150
MR. NORDLUND
Indicated that concern had been discussed
at the KidCare meetings. He noted that
Public Health is in charge of that
evaluation.
2175
REPRESENTATIVE J.
DAVIES
Advised that the Commissioner had
addressed that in her overview.
2186
REPRESENTATIVE J.
DAVIES
Added that it would be a concern if and
when a trend is found to be happening.
He added that there are always going to
be "stories" floating around regarding
that concern.
2210
MR. NORDLUND
Addressed the Program Evaluation
TAPE HFC 00 - 16
SIDE 2
000
MS. ASHENBRENNER
Explained that the Division is attempting
to identify the characteristics of those
recipients coming back to the welfare
system. She noted that the Division is
now working with the University to help
train recipients for better employment.
056
REPRESENTATIVE
PHILLIPS
Asked if only Alaskans are tracked.
071
MS. ASHENBRENNER
Assumed that only the individuals that
stay in the State would be tracked.
086
REPRESENTATIVE
PHILLIPS
Noted that she would hope that only
Alaska residents were being tracked.
102
MS. ASHENBRENNER
Commented that it is often difficult to
recruit people to cooperate in a survey.
126
REPRESENTATIVE
AUSTERMAN
Asked for how long are the recipients
being tracked.
145
MS. ASHENBRENNER
Believed that it was for a 12-month
period. She offered to provide that
information to Committee members.
172
MR. NORDLUND
Commented that one federal law provisions
was that families attain a specific rate.
He pointed out that there is an all-
family rate line which the State of
Alaska is doing well, however, in the two
parent family rate, Alaska is not doing
that well. As the caseloads decline,
there has been a reduction in that
percentage.
295
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Questioned why Alaska was failing in the
two-parent standard.
313
MR. NORDLUND
Acknowledged that percentage was a high
standard. He noted that a high
percentage of those families live in
rural Alaska where it is more difficult
to be placed into the workforce. He
added that there seems to be a higher
level of dysfunction within that group.
379
REPRESENTATIVE
PHILLIPS
Commented that concept was contrary to
history of mankind. She emphasized that
2 parent families are what hold families
together.
410
MR. NORDLUND
Countered that was only the history of
the Public Assistance caseload in rural
Alaska.
436
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT
Reiterated that it is rural Alaska being
discussed.
456
REPRESENTATIVE
PHILLIPS
Repeated that information does not make
sense.
474
MS. ASHENBRENNER
Noted that 50% of these families live in
rural Alaska. She added that these
specific families are the more
"dysfunctional" two parent families.
They are not the functional working 2
parent families. These situations are
dealing with substance abuse issues and
little or no work skills. She noted that
these people do continue to take care of
their kids but that it is a challenge to
work with them. She emphasized that
these are time consuming issues.
583
MR. NORDLUND
Noted that only 15% of the caseload is 2
parent families. He noted that the State
does face penalties when not complying
with these rates.
634
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Questioned if there had been
consideration given for the rural
exemption.
647
MS. ASHENBRENNER
Informed the members that a small
consideration had been made for that
situation.
669
MR. NORDLUND
Spoke to work services philosophy. [See
handout]. To meet the challenges
presented by welfare reform, the Division
provides funds through grants, contracts
and reimbursable service agreements (RSA)
to community organization, businesses and
partner agencies best situated to provide
welfare to work services. The majority
of the funding provided to these
organizations purchase case management
and work search services.
788
MR. NORDLUND
Expounded that many of these persons are
not being placed into an ideal situation,
which often makes it difficult to make a
living wage. He reiterated that it is
required that the worker be employable.
833
MR. NORDLUND
The cornerstone of the program is the
Work Search. This aspect moves the
clients into the workforce as quickly as
possible. The Work Search provider
monitors the job search. They are
coached, matched and placed into
employment. In order to remain eligible,
the client has to be looking for a job.
The agency's model service consists of a
four-week program, which intents to place
60% of those people in a job. He
enumerated that there are situations in
which the clients do have severe problems
and may not make it through the work
search portion. In these situations,
they are referred to a treatment service.
933
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Referenced the cost per month per client.
947
MR. NORDLUND
Explained that the contracts are
addressed on a "work search" basis.
986
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Case management costs vary quite a bit.
997
MR. NORDLUND
Added that the area cost differential
also varies quite a bit.
1020
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Pointed out that Nome was on the low end.
1041
MR. NORDLUND
Offered to provide further explanation to
Committee members regarding that concern.
1062
MR. NORDLUND
Emphasized that the heart of the service
is case management. The eligibility
workers do the follow up. There are
always variations on the case management.
Some caseworkers are assigned to those
that are employed and their employers.
These contractors provide a slightly
different service and sometimes intervene
with the employer if there is a problem
on the job.
1155
MR. NORDLUND
Work Service & Child Care
He noted that the Governor has requested
additional childcare funds this year. He
noted that a childcare assistance program
could accompany that concept. Mr.
Nordlund emphasized that as people move
off temporary assistance, they need
childcare.
1212
CO-CHAIR MULDER
Asked why the childcare component ended
up in the Department of Education.
1225
MR. NORDLUND
Noted that through HB 40, there had been
a debate as to which Department it should
be placed. It was the Governor's desire
that it be place in the Department of
Education. It was intended that it be
placed near Early Childhood Development.
1276
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT
Added that the debate centered on the
quality aspect of the education of the
child's first years. He noted that Head
Start had been included in that
consideration. He believed that it all
should have been placed in the Department
of Education including the Pass One
component.
1338
MR. NORDLUND
He pointed out that the State is over the
+ way mark of the 5-year plan. He noted
that there has been concerns voiced as to
what will happen to those people that are
not capable of working.
1375
MS. ASHENBRENNER
Addressed some of the challenges of those
issues. She noted that the State is
following the national average lines for
services and assistance. There are
however, issues of substance abuse,
mental health concerns, and etc. There
are some strategies being considered
which try to address those concerns. She
emphasized that learning disabilities
have presented a major challenge for many
of these people.
1451
REPRESENTATIVE
PHILLIPS
Questioned if the bottom 30% included the
rural Alaskan recipients.
1470
MS. ASHENBRENNER
Replied that number did include those
persons. The Division is working with
Alaska Works that is trying to train
people for summer jobs.
1518
REPRESENTATIVE
PHILLIPS
Requested that the lower 30% number be
broken down and highlighting specific
concerns for Committee members.
1534
MR. NORDLUND
Offered to provide that information.
1543
VICE CHAIR BUNDE
Asked what would happen if a client
refused to make contact with the work
enforcement.
1561
MR. NORDLUND
Replied that those people could be
sanctioned. That action could result in
a "hold" of 40% of their check.
1575
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT
Pointed out that people living in the
rural communities still are required to
participate in volunteer work and other
sanctions programs.
1599
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT
Referenced the Governor's last request
for Day Care assistance and the impact
that would make on moving people through
the system.
1622
MR. NORDLUND
Stressed that if people can not get child
care assistance, then they can not go to
work.
1674
MS. ASHENBRENNER
Reiterated that some recipients are
currently complaining that they need more
complete childcare assistance in order to
continue working.
1710
MR. NORDLUND
Added that the Department is undertaking
other measures to help. Programs such as
Love INC are dispatching welfare
participant's rides to work. There is an
off shoot of that program that is
donating cars to recipients for
transportation. He enumerated that there
are a number of programs that are
creating community participation. In
Anchorage, there is the family
Pathfinder's Organization, which exists
through various churches. That program
is a mentoring option. Mr. Nordlund
stated that there are extras continually
being provided by the community
organizations to help these people move
off welfare.
1831
MR. NORDLUND
The Division is now doing more case
management.
1844
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT
Questioned if most communities
participating have some sort of faith
based orientation.
1860
MR. NORDLUND
Was only familiar with those in the
larger cities. He noted that there are
two groups specifically serving
membership.
1883
CO-CHAIR THERRIAULT
Noted that a flyer had been sent to his
church to encourage the hiring of welfare
recipients.
1915
CO-CHAIR MULDER
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 4:15 P.M.
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
LOG NOTES
January 25, 2000
H.F.C. 11 1/25/00
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